I have received a lot—and I mean a lot—of e-mails and phone calls over the past few weeks regarding the controversy that is developer David Slaughter’s plans to build apartments on 1.7 acres along the northern edge of Spanish Town.
This, however, is not your garden variety Developer v. NIMBY debate that gets hashed out before the Planning Commission and Metro Council, pitting vows to build a first-class project against counter-claims of property-value destruction and the always popular flooding, drainage and sewer concerns.
No, this development donnybrook gets amped up to 11 because Spanish Town—best known as the birthplace of this city’s most politically incorrect, overindulgent parade—not only resides within the boundaries of the Downtown Development District but also has the added cachet of a little something the preservationists like to call a historic district designation.
Having “historic” attached to your name means different things to different people, but for the purposes of this discussion it means it’s a hell of a lot harder to build something new amid something old.
A friend of mine regularly requests that I “bottom line it,” so, in her honor, here’s the quick-hit back story: The land where the proposed Capitol Lofts project is to be built is owned by Richard Preis and Chuck Cline … A large portion of the property is vacant but there are seven renter-occupied houses on the site … Slaughter initially proposes to tear down the houses and build a six-story apartment complex … Spanish Town residents go nuts with objections … Sensing massive media coverage, the Historical Foundation injects itself into the debate … Spanish Town residents celebrate, everyone else groans … Slaughter then offers to tear down the houses and build a four-story complex … Spanish Town residents go nuts, declaring the design of the proposed apartments are both out of scale and out of architectural touch with the neighborhood … the DDD doesn’t know what to do, officials want new downtown housing but don’t want to see Spanish Town residents go nuts … Slaughter, facing mounting criticism, pulls the project off the Planning Commission’s agenda … Spanish Town residents celebrate … the city’s planning staff declares the seven houses are in disrepair and issues a permit to the landowners to tear them down … Spanish Town residents go nuts, arguing the houses are simply historic gems in need of a little TLC … the city’s Historic Preservation Commission decides by a 7-1 vote to order Preis and Cline to fix up the houses within 90 days or they’ll get in big trouble … Spanish Town residents celebrate; Preis and Cline say little publicly but privately go nuts … Slaughter, late last week, floats the idea of saving five houses and relocating two others but warns this could force additional stories on the apartment building to make the project financially feasible … Spanish Town residents say they want more details but are inclined to go nuts.
So who’s right and who’s wrong in this epic debate? I have no idea.
People that I know and respect are on both sides of the aisle on this one.
With that uncertainty, I decided to do my own Spanish Town inquisition in the form of a little walking tour of the neighborhood.
What I found was shocking. Without question, there are numerous wonderful homes in the neighborhood and the architecture is definitely worth preserving. But, frankly, much of Spanish Town is a dump. Renters occupy a great many of the houses and it’s obvious neither they, nor the absentee owners, could care less about maintaining the property. Several yards are well past overgrown and there’s trash and graffiti throughout the neighborhood.
I feel sorry for those who’ve invested thousands and thousands of dollars—and in some cases in excess of $100,000—in restoring their homes. There are some incredible gems in Spanish Town. But there’s way too much out-right blight.
Let’s put it this way: Charleston it ain’t.
So perhaps residents and preservationists should spend as much time and as much passion pressuring their neighbors to clean up their act as they’re devoting in the fight against Slaughter’s project.
And perhaps Slaughter needs to really study the character and architectural wonder of the neighborhood and propose something that truly blends with the historic district he so badly wants to join.
A little less rhetoric and a little more restoration might be the solution for all sides.
Comments
Posted by Being_Stupid on August 25, 2009 at 1:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
NIMBYs and these HOAs (Home Owner Associations) will always oppose change. So far this year we have seen the following developments shut down by the NIMBYS:
1. Presbyterian Church on Oliphant & Bluebonnet
2. Art Gallery on Perkins Road near Overpass
3. Spanish Latino Dance Hall on Florida Blvd next to Texas Club
4. Conditional Use Permit for St. Josephs Academy Parking Lot
5. Neighborhood Office on 5 Lane Perkins Road near Siegan
6. Denial, then Defer after Defer until FINALLY the Caterie was allowed CAB-2, (after months of hassle by Southside Civic Association & Cancer Society Opponents of Smoking)
List goes forever...
NIMBYISM doesn't build great cities.
FORGET THE LOOP - Not going to happen, NIMBYs have already killed that project.
Posted by Being_Stupid on August 25, 2009 at 1:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
DEVELOPERS ARE EVIL!!!
ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MONEY
PURSUIT OF PROPERTY IS SELFISH
PROFIT IS A $IN
YOUR HOME OWNER ASSOCIATION IS YOUR FRIEND, THINK OF US LIKE A "BIG BROTHER" WATCHING OVER YOU & YOUR PROPERTY RIGHTS (heee heee heee :):):)
Posted by Being_Stupid on August 25, 2009 at 1:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Historic Society???
Want to preserve a piece of History???
Really??
HOW ABOUT WE START WITH PRESERVING PROPERTY RIGHTS!!!!
Posted by banksmonty91 on August 25, 2009 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I also live in an old area of town. It sure be a lot better if people would just mow their grass and put away their trashcans after trash day. I wish we would have new development occur in our part of the city, but no developer wants to come over here.
Posted by StacieT on August 25, 2009 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The DDD insiders privately support David Slaughter's Project, but they don't want to publicly admit so for fear of losing local support. The Spanish Town Historic Society has a lot of political power over public entities, like the DDD, and government officials who fear the votes and contribution money they may lose if they publicly support such a project.
Downtown has enough thriving business, but no residential. This project would provide new and attractive housing for Downtown. However, the political obstacles will be difficult to overcome, if not impossible.
Posted by AnthongG on August 26, 2009 at 5:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Growth is GOOD. When an area is improved it encourages
others to participate as well.As a property owner on East State street, I am seeing a resurgence happening here.
Chimes Street,Tigertown,East State are seeing new life and
vibrance.For all who are interested,we WELCOME you.Bring your ideas, energy and investment to us and our efforts.
Louisana Terrace and Arbour Place are among the oldest four
oldest areas of town dating back to 1922.
Posted by LynnSchlos on August 26, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The animated public debate over the proposed development in Historic Spanish Town is something to celebrate. Those who see it merely as prime real estate or as a parade route, need a reminder that Spanish Town is also a community, and an asset to the city. It is not merely those of us who live in Spanish Town who celebrate, when it is successfully defended from poorly planned overdevelopment. During the past month I contributed a letter to the editor of the Advocate, seeking to share with the public what it stands to lose if it does not protect its historic downtown neighborhoods. I cannot tell you how many comments I've received from people I know only slightly, from all around Baton Rouge, thanking me for writing it. Historic prservation is not the enemy of growth, but the advocate of conserving what is irreplaceable, even if tearing it down and doing something new is financially attractive to somebody. By the way, I'm one of those renters who seem to worry you, and I tend my garden, as do my neighbors.
Posted by spanishtowner on August 26, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Shocking" and "dump"? This is a little strong, JR. Compared to 25 or so years ago before the cool folks caught on and started investing, rehabbing and making it a safe place to live, we've done a lot. Much of Spanish Town is in fact a rental area, a highly sought rental area, although there are now more owner occupied houses in the neighborhood than ever in recent history. A number of owner/occupants also have rentals, myself included, and those rentals are among the most well kept. The biggest problem with rundown rentals is some of the absentee landlords (among them the owner of the properties at issue) and of course we would LOVE for them to fix up their properties or sell to those who would. On the other hand, affordable rent contributes to our population's diverse and bohemian quality, which we treasure, and which, quite frankly, those who might want to rent in the proposed Capital Lofts would probably not "get".
Posted by fourx5 on August 26, 2009 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Baton Rouge - the city that redefines sprawl, yet argues endlessly about project like this and Rouzan...no wonder your smart young people are leaving.
Posted by StacieT on August 26, 2009 at 4:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with Lynn's comment about renters. I and about 40% of Baton Rouge rent our household. Before you slam renters, better realize a large percentage of your readers and Baton Rouge are renters.
Posted by rougemuse on August 26, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
When I moved back home to Baton Rouge last summer and into Spanishtown, I was thrilled. There was no place in this city I would have preferred living, and it's still true today. Here are some facts:
1. Many of the "gems" in Spanish Town used to look like "dumps" until their owners invested much time, hard work and money into them. (Tell the owners to their faces you feel sorry for them about their neighborhood, and they will laugh you out of it.)
2. There are a number of landlords who should take better care of their property, for themselves and their tenants. (I liken property-owners who commit demolition by neglect or just plain neglect to having children without being prepared to raise them well. It's something decent citizens don't do.)
3. Charm, community, and well-preserved history hold value.
4. Not all kinds of growth are good. (Like cancer, or a freaky, oversized extra limb.)
I lived in Charlotte, NC for two years. They've erased much of their history and put up loft condos and shiny high-rises in its place, wherever they can squeeze them. Many residents feel cheated, and it makes for a largely impersonal and shallow city. Spanish Town has been encroached upon for long enough. It's time to say enough is enough! It's time for active preservation, not disrepair and destruction. Your conformity does not conform to Spanish Town. Put it somewhere else downtown--the fenced-in, littered, empty lots are the real embarrassment between I-110 and the river. As a Spanish Town resident, I would love to grocery shop downtown. And as for the empty lot on the corner of Sixth and State Capitol--thanks to Preis's decision to demolish rather than restore--build residences that abide by the historic guidelines and preserve if not history, than at least our pride in what will, in the future, be historical.
Posted by loupegarou on August 26, 2009 at 5:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Ball, it seems, uses what few journalists will any more: shoe leather. Thank you for an eyewitness account of the true nature of this neighborhood. There is, indeed, still too much blight.
Spanish Town has come a long way in its 200 years. As recently as the 1980s, it was down and outsville; a bleak and creepy, semi-populated corner of downtown's nasty parking lots and nastier politics.
The blight remains because absentee landlords -who bought cheap in the 70s and chopped up pretty Victorians into apartments - continue to reap but never sow. But in the last twenty years, those the New Urbanism call "risk oblivious" have been buying, fixing and cleaning.
One would like to think the renewal investment of the latter would be rewarded. What this camp has recently gotten (ironically, for their trouble) is threat.
Now that the neighborhood is emerging as (in Baton Rouge terms) "tony," a real estate speculator wants to slice out his piece. This is an often-unnoticed menace that threatens up-and-coming former down-and-outs across America.
Why "Spanish Town goes nuts?" Because the people of the neighborhood who have sweated, year in and year out, to increase its value and livability have recently sighted a pirate ship pulling up alongside. An enormnous Death Star of an apartment complex will syphon the caché, suck the property value and leech the infrastructure of a mere five aquare blocks that have been been carefully nurtured back to health.
That's why Spanish Town goes nuts. I would, too.
Posted by Cajungrl on August 26, 2009 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow, a dump? That sounds slightly elitist and this view of Spanish Town contiues to do more harm than good. Try looking at the neighborhood with eyes that are not used to manicured lawns and cookie cutter houses and you might see something different. That being said, Spanish Town is NOT, I repeat NOT opposed to development on the vacant land (vacant as a result of Pries' demolition by neglect) as long as this development adheres to the current A4 zoning and the historic design guidelines passed by the Metro Council. The onus is on the developer to follow the law, not on the neighborhood to conform to the developers wishes. If this is seen as people "going nuts", democracy is in big trouble. If Slaughter et. al. can not make the bottom line work on this property then perhaps they made a poor business decison. As far as the rampant neglect you see in the neighborhood, I think the steps that are being taken by the HPC will hopefully change the tide and then maybe Spaish Town will be pretty enough to be considered something other than a "dump".
Posted by porchmonkey on August 26, 2009 at 7:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I moved to Spanish Town in 1980 and within six months was pronouncing I would live the rest of my life here. We have sweat and swatted at flash fires for 30 years, reclaiming the area one house, then one street, then one block at a time.
Willing hermit crabs in our decorated hats, in the early years we often ignored the scruffiness because it served us well as camouflage; it kept our secret, protecting us from opportunistic property speculators and developers. Maybe we forgot that once-dormant cancers can reappear.
If "along the northern edge" is a phrase that seems to make the neighborhood foamy about the mouth, realize this, Mr. Ball... the edge keeps receding inward. Memory is short; Mr. Preis has been responsible for a substantial amount of that blight creating the boundary shrinkage.
High density housing will not be compatible with one-lane streets. What effect do you think a four-laned Spanish Town Road will have on this neighborhood? How many houses will have to go?
There are 250 buildings in Spanish Town. Most, but not all of them are residential. At some point each of us will be called upon to decide how few homes still make a livable neighborhood, a functional community. In each case it will be a very individual decision. We will remain lulled at a whittling down to 175, perhaps. What about 60? What about 40? What if they're no longer concentrated but sparse and sprinkled, none to the right, none to the left, one across the street.
In 1980 I had a neighbor who routinely called Baton Rouge a city of historic parking lots, the brown markers always sprouting along the perimeter of weedy, black-topped Alrights.
Then there was Spanish Town.
If you wish to talk about blight, Mr. Ball, take a look at property owned by Mr. Preis. And remember the fact that he created it. And you might just try looking at us with a little less contempt.
He wants to make money. That's not a bad thing. Destroying a thriving neighborhood is.
Welcome to Spanish-Town-Land.
At least we have a marker.
Posted by spanishtown on August 27, 2009 at 12:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The main flaw in this argument is that the fact that while there are properties in the neighborhood in need of maintenance, this really has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not Slaughter and Preis should be issued a permit that is in violation of the neighborhood’s design guidelines. The Slaughter/Preis proposed project is a new development and is therefore subject to the guidelines, whereas, the houses referenced as “blighted” are not—unfortunately. While it would be nice if the design guidelines did bear upon existing conditions, they do not. However, this is not to say that we should therefore abandon enforcement of what they do pertain to: new developments. As it is, the observations about maintenance of existing homes really has no bearing upon the pros and cons of enforcing the historic district guidelines, even though they are obviously limited.
Posted by jrball (JR Ball) on August 27, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As I said in my column, Mr. Slaughter should NOT be allowed to build anything that is not consistent with the character and architecture of Spanish Town. His project must compliment and/or enhance its surroundings. At the same time, Spanish Town has way too much blight and absentee landlords that do not maintain their properties. Moreover, there's quite a bit of trash, overgrown lots and graffiti in the neighborhood. Is that character? Is that charm? Or is that a problem? My point is that while historic foundations and concerned residents are busy protecting Spanish Town from less than inspiring development they should also take the time to demand ordinances be passed so that anyone who owns property in historic Spanish Town maintains those properties. It's not an either/or situation. Both should happen. It's been done in other cities and it can be done here—without sacrificing the character that makes Spanish Town unique.
Posted by Hedgehog on August 27, 2009 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Ball, I see you attempting to be a peace maker, but Spanish Town is the land of many historic conflicts.
There was action there during the American Revolution, the West Florida Republic and original Lone Star Republic, and the American Civil War. Lets face it, this development will be good for cement and asphalt but not for live oaks.
Spanish Town is comprised of a bunch of small lots. The intent of the subdivision was single family homes--clearly.
I can't see any aspect of the Slaughter development that even remotely resembles the original vision for Spanish Town. Instead it seems to resemble, somewhat, Los Vegas Style or old Tiger Town--something that doesn't clash with Hollywood Casino I suppose. Perhaps some golden arches would be appropriate?
Just for the record, Mr. Ball, what part of the Slaughter/Preis/Holden project do you consider to be good for the neighborhood? Just because its a new structure, doesn't mean it isn't blight itself. I recognize it for what is is currently proposed to be: new urban blight. All this hoopla is for a plan that hasn't even been drawn yet. Its still in the works. Its also sad to see that our spineless Mayor will not support the residents opposition to the undrawn plan. People fear the unknown, it makes them nuts.
Posted by STdenizen on August 27, 2009 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Remember when the New Richmond Place apartments were torn down in the name of increasing downtown residential density?
Check your files:
Plans to build The Brownstones, a 70-unit downtown apartment building at Laurel and Fifth streets, are being reworked because of cost concerns.
Commercial Properties Development Corp., the Baton Rouge Area Foundation’s real estate development division, still expects to build housing on the site, but the details won’t be known for several months, says Mukul Verma, the foundation’s spokesman. “Both the construction and financing part of that project got so expensive, because of what’s going on,” Verma says. “We’re trying to make things more affordable.”
Commercial Properties had planned to open The Brownstones by the end of 2009, but Verma says the new timetable hasn’t been determined. Demolition of the New Richmond Place apartments, located on the site, is continuing. Commercial Properties has been attempting to redevelop the site for a few years now; at one point there were plans for a mixed-use office/retail/parking building on the site. Verma says the latest delay isn’t a setback. “We continue to be on track for this. It will just have a new look,” he says.
Posted by Spanish_Townie on August 27, 2009 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Ball,
Next time you want to visit Spanish Town, I invite you to call me or one of my neighbors first so we can offer a more comprehensive tour that takes into account the extraordinary progress, personality and celebrated history of our vibrant neighborhood and illustrates why we oppose the Slaughter/Preis plan.
I’m talking a tour starting with the three impeccably renovated duplexes at the top of Spanish Town Road that, not long ago, had been in worse shape than the seven historic houses the Slaughter/Preis duo recently proposed demolishing. A tour counting all the houses that homeowners have renovated in recent years, including the tiny A-frame, unoccupied for a decade, that has become Shangrila for one creative couple. A tour emphasizing the increasing number of homeowners in Spanish Town. A tour pointing out chickens in one resident’s yard, the glass bottle sculpture that never fails to catch the sun, the community fig tree where neighbors meet and share fruit, the preponderance of gardens bedecked with whirligigs, Mardi Gras beads and knickknacks. On your previous visit, you walked right by the color and charisma, the small but essential details of Spanish Town that show the neighborhood’s energy, pride of ownership, and diversity.
Sadly, this neighborhood has been assaulted by insensitive development going all the way back to when the state bisected the neighborhood with the highway. Our tour would have to include the awkward, raised structure on Spanish Town Road, the unsightly squat brick apartment boxes on 8th Street, the back-side loading dock of the state building on 6th Street. Nearly every street has some once-hailed model of development that stands out like a sore thumb among renovated bungalows and old Victorians. These ill-fitting developments are the true blights of Spanish Town, and we do not need another.
Work remains to be done on absentee landlords, but we’re moving steadily in the right direction. In the meantime, Spanish Town has a healthy working class population, a large number of young teachers, students, artists and others who value the craftsmanship and character of our historic buildings over perfectly groomed, modern replacements lacking the rhythm of the place we call home. Next time you’re in Spanish Town, call us, please!
Posted by vicarhoward on August 27, 2009 at 2:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A walking tour of the neighborhood? Yes, I do at least twice daily plus driving as I live here where I was born and chose to retire. Mr. Ball, since I live on site I testify that in recent months many homeowner and rental units have been or are being repainted and renovated: at least 2 on Lakeland, 5 on Spanish Town Rd., 3 on N.7th, 2 on Lucilla, 2 on Bungalow, 2 on Costello among others. How many similar neighborhoods in Baton Rouge can boast such transformation? Yes, a few buildings and yards are being neglected and trashed. But I fail to find your "quite a bit of trash, overgrown lots and graffiti" The only graffiti I note is on the former STATE owned Insurance Building remains. I agree, we do need HSTCA and residents AND ESPECIALLY HOMEOWNERS AND ABSENTEE LANDLORDS to re-double their efforts for improvement. When walking I stop daily to remove rare bits of trash along our Spanish Town streets and sidewalks. As to the proposed Slaughter multi-story, I have been very involved in SMART GROWTH planning in West Feliciana and St. Francisville. The tensions were similar-- residents who said "keep our small town, neighborhood ambience" versus possible developers and growth from the new Audubon bridge. The final plan, of which I have a copy, offers preservation and cleaning up of one and two story residences and commercial with infill by NEW structures that are ONE and TWO story (not Preis-Slaughter's five or so) and of comparable style. Let's clean up our "hood", Baton Rouge's first and historic walkable gem and when building think one or two story, hopefully with owners (condos?) rather than legislative and lobbyist renters who live off-site. Smart growth CAN mean smart preservation (e.g., Welsh and Levy, Kress, Piccadilly, Fuqua Hardware, etc.) and in our DDD leave the "mega rise above it all" to the Lafayette-River Rd. site OF Mr. Preis.
Posted by richyb on August 27, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mayor Holden should change his slogan to Baton Rouge "America's Next Great TOWN"...not City....BR is a CITY...not a town. A compromise was made and Capitol Lofts will only be 4-stories!!! Yes indeed Spanish Town is a unique neighborhood...I believe Capitol Lofts will ADD to the area! Not take away from!! Given this is on the edge across from Arsenal Park; it should not be a problem; the Capitol Access Road is about to become a 2-way street.
The 14-story Presbyterian Apts(North @ Seventh) is as ugly as it gets next to the towering Galvez Bldg. A 4-story loft in the shadows of the U.S. Tallest State Capitol at 34-stories/450 feet!! And next to the Future Economic Development Bldg...WHY is the 4-story height a problem again?? Baton Rouge does not begin to know what DENSITY means compared to even a Shreveport.
Projects like this give downtown a chance to get a grocery store or a pharmacy! Maybe even a little movie cinema??
I agree too many historic structures are sadly demolished/ have been in the past. Preservation is important! BUT even in today's Advocate Internationally-renowned Urban-Planner Andres Duany call the old houses "5 virtual mud-huts, if they had indoor plumming it would suprise me- preventing the evolution of a densification of a city that needs to take place downtown"... My question?? WHY?? Do people turn a blind-eye to these dilapadated structures til they nearly rot, then ONLY get interested in them when somebody with a little vision and hope for the future wants to do something with the land??
Yeah I would like to see Preis high-rise River Place condo tower go up too!It would be iconic & put BR on the map! But please don't call 4-stories a high-rise... it's this very mentality why places like Austin, Nashville & Raleigh look at BR in the rear-view mirror. Alot of locals would like to keep BR like St Francisville...that's frustrating!!!
It took nearly 15 years for the Crescent Condo's at University Lake to get off the ground because of "concerns"..now it happens to be the nicest new residentail project in BR in years! This ADDED to property values in the surrounding area!
Forget infil or density...let's continue to sprawl!!! I can envision more new single-entranced sub-divisions going up in the future like The Gates at Dutchtown; the Reserve at Alligator Bayou; Butterfly Gardens at Southdowns Hills and White Flight Estates, etc...
Posted by fisherking on August 27, 2009 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think some of the Spanish Town crowd needs to take off the pink sunglasses and be a little more objective for once. JR isn't necessarily supporting the development he’s just saying there is a lot of run down crap that would hardly qualify as charming. Start policing some of the slum lords in your neighborhood before calling it the gem you think it is.
Like Ball said it aint Charleston and it certainly isn’t NOLAs Garden District or even the Marigny, hell it aint even the Bywater. Its good that you have pride but you have be reasonable too.
And before anyone attacks me, I have lived in Spanish Town a couple of times and enjoyed it. But I did see it for what it was and I also saw for its potential, which it’s not even close to achieving.
Posted by fourx5 on August 27, 2009 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"As I said in my column, Mr. Slaughter should NOT be allowed to build anything that is not consistent with the character and architecture of Spanish Town."
Well, if that isn't a huge "in the eye of the beholder" loophole, I don't know what could be.
It never turns out like they promise it will. Not for the little guy, anyway. You should know that by now, JR.
Posted by colby5765 on August 27, 2009 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A dump? Grafitti? I've seen ONE yard on 6th near Lakeland that is sorely in need of attention, but other than many renovations going on to IMPROVE the neighborhood, I don't see any mess that could be remotely considered urban blight. What part of Spanish Town did you walk in? The other side of I-110? How about full disclosure.....what is your vested interest in killing our neighborhood? Are you, Pries, and Slaughter golfing buddies or something?
Posted by jrball (JR Ball) on August 27, 2009 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Where has anyone read where I'm defending Richard Preis or David Slaughter? How many times do I have to write that the project should fit within the character and architectural style of Spanish Town??? Is there not a historic preservation commission in existence? Could they not make the call???
That said, why is it then taken as being pro-Capital Lofts for saying something needs to be done about the trash, unkept yards and absentee landlord problem in Spanish Town?
If there's no problem in Spanish Town why are so many Spanish Town homeowners (and renters) calling and writing to say they agree that something needs to be done with blighted property in the historic district??
Instead of fighting ONLY to stop a developer's plans, why not fight to make Spanish Town the best that it can be--WITHOUT sacrificing its character and charm??
Posted by Hedgehog on August 27, 2009 at 9:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
JR Ball, you may have created the aura of support for Slaughter, because you attempted to change the subject from whether to allow a change of Zoning to "why don't you guys clean up the blight" attitude in your message. What are we talking about here? Zoning or Blight? It's your article, man. Stay focused. Stay on target.
There are a number of sub-themes involved in the Spanish Town Mess. Probably foremost is the belief that many of us don't trust the government to do the right thing.
Posted by vicarhoward on August 27, 2009 at 9:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, J.R. the Historic Preservation Commission, with citizen input, can work to "make the call" if it wasn't pretty evident as one attends the meetings that some "end runs" and "pointed lectures" didn't seem to also be in the mix. The ANNUAL MEETING of the HISTORIC SPANISH TOWN CIVIC ASSOCIATION should be the last weekend in September (check the spanishtown.us website for details). Since I have been a HSTCA member, in recent months prior to consuming efforts over the Slaughter-Preis issue, in attending board meets, in personal conversation and e-mails I know there has been and continues to be an added list of issues mentioned by J.R. that are addressed and encouraged, such as safety and security, beautification and trash removal, stray pet concerns, encouraging neighborhood dinners, repair of problem homes, honoring those who "fix up" etc. that, as J.R. pleads, by which HSTCA continues to "FIGHT TO MAKE SPANISH TOWN THE BEST THAT IT CAN BE -- WITHOUT SACRIFICING ITS CHARACTER AND CHARM." SO COME TO THE HSTCA ANNUAL MEETING AND GET INVOLVED. An added personal concern would be fixing the sidewalks, adding curb cuts and getting DPW and citizens to not put trash cans on the sidewalks since we have persons with walkers, motorized chairs and impaired sight regularly using our sidewalks. (And by the way J.R., I suspect there are not higher percentages of "nutcases" in Spanish Town than among those ramping up the decibels at health care forums.) .
Posted by spanishtown on August 28, 2009 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think in the future when you write an article you should be a lot more sensitive in how you describe your audience. The reason why the people of Spanish Town feel passionately about there neighborhood is because without very much help from city government or other citizens within the greater Baton Rouge area we have single handly become a success. Our neighborhood began smart growth before A6 and before the new urban concept. We are to be respected for our hard work rather then be criticized. There is much more work to do so if you would like to pitch in and help our historic district feel free to contact the HSTCA I'm susre they could use your help!
If it were not for the perseverance of the people who have been here since this neighborhood was truly blighted we would not be having this conversation. A year ago at this time I stood in front of the Planning Commission, the Metro Council, and the Historic Preservation Commission when they passed unanimously the design guidelines for our historic distict. Now the design guidelines simply need to be enforced.
Posted by spanishtown on August 28, 2009 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry, about the above typos which are, "their neighborhood", "single handily" and "sure".
Posted by citizen on August 28, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jr,
One again you have done your job. Your piece has brought out a lot of great discussion, and has certainly been informative for me an "Eastsider" to read the various opinions and takes from the people writing in.
I drove by Spanishtown and I can agree with you, and say I too thought it looked like a dump. For every well kept home there was a dozen or more poorly kept shotgun style homes that looked in poor condition.
But I do see the need to be careful with whatever is put in that neighborhood. The streets and the current residents need not deal with more trafic and more hustle and bustle than they have now.
The Capital, the new state buildings and the Catholic/Presbyterian Apartments, etc are a load already. Another50 residences will only add to the congestion and the parking problems.
I don't have the answer, but it seems the homeowners association needs to get on absentee landlords and homeowners who aren't keeping up their property.
But I have changed my mind after reading all the comments, fighting the developers to insure that Spanishtown isn't overwhelmed by progress needs to continue as the association's job one. I am for progress, but not at all costs.
That area is not readily assessible and it was planned as a traditional doowntown neighborhood when it was crated. Putting 21st century buildings with a dense population into such an area is not realistic and not good for the current residents. That is now apparent to me.
Once again, congratulations JR on getting the dialogue started.
citizen
Posted by spanishtowner on August 28, 2009 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Regarding the comment "...I believe Capitol Lofts will ADD to the area! Not take away from!! Given this is on the edge across from Arsenal Park; it should not be a problem": I live on another "edge" of the neighborhood where I used to have neighbors across the street. An entire 1-1/2 blocks of houses were taken by the state barely a decade ago for the DEQ building. Not the same as private development, I know, but one of the vulnerabilities we already face. If this development takes more houses and else-wise makes a mockery of our legitimately passed Historic District Ordinance (get that word, ordinance?) what would stop efforts to acquire more "dumps", tear them down, and do more of the same? There will always be an edge, and another edge.
Posted by mdavis03 on August 28, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I would love to know where all of these people who complain about sprawl happen to live. I bet many live in CCLA - which is barely in EBRP. This probably helps to put into perspective why they describe the Southdowns and Spanish Town areas as blighted. They will never be able to appreciate the historic architecture or the charm - they equate pier and beam with trailor.
And to those who dared to mention The Crescent - regardless of the asking prices, below capacity complexes HURT surrounding property values.
I can only hope these "develpments" and the plans for Rouzan go the same way as Perkins Rowe - bankrupt!
Posted by FRLEWIS on August 28, 2009 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
JR,
You said in your column that the developer should NOT be allowed to build anything that is not consistent with the character and architecture of Spanish Town. Why were you in favor of Rouzan which is exactly opposite this statement?
I do understand that Spanish Town has a "historic" designation, but why is this property any different than the Ford property which sits next to Woodchase/Pollard, Southdowns, and Meadow Lea? These neighborhoods opposed rezoning the Ford property from A-1 Single Family to TND ("traditional" neighborhood develpment) because the development was NOT CONSISTENT with the surrounding character of these well-established neighborhoods. Which, by the way, are not "dumps" full of renters as you so eloquently described Spanish Town.
You supported the Rouzan developer in getting the TND zoning which will change the character of these fine, existing neighborhoods. The Rouzan project, if it ever breaks ground, will include apartments (this means "renters", which you obviously hold in low esteem), multi-story buildings, zero lot line homes, and businesses - none of which are consistent or in "charater" with the existing A-1 single family neighborhoods. Sort of like your position on these matters, NOT CONSISTENT.
Posted by Fred on August 28, 2009 at 7:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One of the biggest problems with Baton Rouge is the so called Neighborhood Civic Associations. They should be classified as what they are... Political Action Committees and regulated as such.
It never ceases to amaze me how these organizations can create so much discourse with so little numbers of active members.
A prime example is the Southside Civic Association. With just a few very zealous people, they have single handily done more harm to Baton Rouge than any single organization.
Posted by mdavis03 on September 1, 2009 at 2:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And continuing my earlier post...if you're one of the people complaining about sprawl and you DON'T live in CCLA, do you happen to live in University Club?
My wife also added a nice perspective on this when she reminded me of the folks in Bocage getting irate over the idea of a connecting street to a new, nearby development. Does that make Bocage residents NIMBY'S?!
Where was the uproar over Bocage being the reason that Baton Rouge can't retain it's gifted young professionals? Where were the claims that the Bocage Homeowner's Association was a terrorist organization or a PAC?
Bocage, the University Club and CCLA are "neighborhoods" which have only a single entry/exit, have no connectivity to the rest of the city and restrict surrounding development. Why are those of us who live south of Perkins or in Spanish Town attacked so viciously, when we're only trying to do for our homes what you do for yours?
Posted by por_deni on September 2, 2009 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lots of people want to live in Spanish Town, but don't want to pay a premium for a run-down property, then essentially pay the price for another house just to bring one little dump to modern standards.
So why not cater to practical economics and let multi-family housing go up in a flood-prone area in the shadow of the future LED building? I can't understand why ST residents would force new residents to live in little shotguns at the bottom of a natural levee dwarfed by yet another state building.
Look, Baton Rouge is not like Europe where historic houses will stand for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years. Pests, humidity, and storm damage, not to mention the fortunes of the owners, will take their toll on all stick homes regardless of their historic status. Louisiana is not wealthy, and most residents lack sufficient resources to maintain an old house. (Those who do have cash have bought up Spanish Town to let and laugh all the way to the bank at you fools paying high rents.)
I'm not saying we need to treat homes as throw-away commodities, but we do need to recognize when the useful life of a structure is over. The houses on the Slaughter properties are not architecturally significant, having been built post-WWII in haste and in a risky location. Did they replace earlier structures? I doubt it. So why can't we all just move on? Save historically and architecturally significant properties, and replace anonymous, insignificant structures with cutting-edge architecture that will be an instant classic.
Posted by fourx5 on September 3, 2009 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
mdavis:
The answer to your question is easy. You have neither the money nor the pull to have your complaints heard.
After all - in Baton Rouge, WHO you know is all that matters - not WHAT you know.
Posted by fourx5 on September 3, 2009 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I would love to know where all of these people who complain about sprawl happen to live."
Given that the Baton Rouge Metro Area is far larger in area than the San Jose/Fremont metro area (where over 2.5 million people live) I think it's quite fair to call the mess of patchwork development surrounding the capitol sprawl.
Posted by Hedgehog on September 3, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For fourx5: The population density of Spanish Town, versus the general population of the City of Baton Rouge is 7537 per square mile versus 2965. The median price per house in 2007 was $179,391 for ST, versus $191,497 for the city. I agree with you "It never turns out like they promise it will. Not for the little guy, anyway". The median age for ST, versus the city, for males is 34.6 years vs. 30.4 years, and for females, 44.4 years vs. 32.1 years of age.
For por__deni (and richyb): You contradict yourself without changing sentences. From what you wrote, I'm not sure you wouldn't euthanize Grand Ma if she caught a bad cold.
What is an instant classic?
No, Spanish Town is not like Europe, where some of the oldest houses that survive were made of mud (bousillage construction). There is a so-called mud hut in downtown Paris, France, that dates to the 9th century.
Stick homes? I remember a story about a big bad wolf that would "huff and puff until I blow your house down". That was a story about little pigs, I believe. I agree, however, that lots of people would like to live in Spanish Town.
For mdavis03: I agree that if the rest of the city had adopted a rational street plan like Spanish Town, then a lot of the traffic and bottlenecks would have never developed. In Switzerland the residents hold numerous referendums (elections)and vote for Zoning changes. That tends to keep the asses separated from the straw.
Fred: In public school there is a course called social studies. When I was in public school, we called it civics.
Where did you get your information from?
FRLEWIS: I believe the Ford property (Rouzan) offers evidence that the City of Baton Rouge never met a developer that it didn't like.
When developed, the bottlenecks, etc. will be forever. I'm in your camp.
Spanishtowner: "Brilliant". If only we could get Obama to invite you, citizen, Spanishtown JR BALL, fisherking, and Being__Stupid to the white house for a beer.
for citizen: Thank you for having an open mind.
for Spanishtown: "Brilliant"! Don't worry about the typos. At least you try to correct your errors instead of repeating them. It remains to be seen if the Zoning, city council, etc. will abide by the pre-existing ordinance.
vicarhoward: Yes, ST is a great neighborhood. We have old folks on motorized chairs navigating the streets, so we do need to be careful.
Hedgehog: Brilliant!
Posted by Hedgehog on September 3, 2009 at 9:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
continued...
jrball: I can't see the horrible blight you mention. Are you sure those calls are from Spanishtown. I agree with Colby5765 " How about full disclosure.....what is your vested interest in killing our neighborhood? Are you, Pries, and Slaughter golfing buddies or something?"
richyb: you have a great sense of humor.
My understanding is that the Catholic-Presbyterian apartments is among the primary reasons that the Historic Spanish Town Civic Association was brought into existence. Back then, the neighborhood had no organization to look after its interest. CP is loud too. When the siding on the place started falling on the streets a few years back, the city helped them with financing--if memory serves me. They replaced the chiller for that building with a really loud chiller--that you can hear for a couple of blocks.
In the instance of Capital Lofts: I think its bad public policy to grant a zoning change before we learn what the thing is going to look like.
If I were investing with Slaughter/Preis et al I would build on the vacant lots a series of modern craftsman/bungalow houses. They would sell like hotcakes--or he could rent them. Sometimes quality over volume can be a happy compromise.
fisherking: good name! You are still welcome in Spanish Town. If you ever set foot on my front porch, I would appreciate you not calling my place a dump!
Have you got some problem with pink sunglasses?
No, Spanish Town is not Charleston. The city of Charleston preserved its historic merchant district. It is fine. They have mule pulled buggies to allow city visitors to savor the ambiance.
By contrast, Spanish Town was built for working class folks and college professors and such.
STdenizen: Good to know. Thanks for the update.
Spanish_Townie, porchmonkey, Cajungrl, loupegarou, rougemuse : Brilliant! Good background and commentary. Thank you. I learned quite a bit. What can I say? Thank you for your opinion.
StacieT: Good comment. I investigated and discovered a web site http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Sp... where there are rent statistics for both the hood and the city.
LynnSchlos: Poetry.
Folks, read this:
"The animated public debate over the proposed development in Historic Spanish Town is something to celebrate. Those who see it merely as prime real estate or as a parade route, need a reminder that Spanish Town is also a community, and an asset to the city. It is not merely those of us who live in Spanish Town who celebrate, when it is successfully defended from poorly planned over development."
AnthongG: That is great news.
StacieT: "attractive housing? That is the whole ball of wax isn't it?
banksmonty91: Yes, the neighbors should cut the grass.
Being_Stupid: Hey, do you play golf with Slaughter, JR, and Preis?
Posted by Being_Stupid on September 3, 2009 at 10:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
WHO IN THE F-BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP OWNS THEIR OWN PROPERTY ANYMORE???
Agree with Fred's above statement!
Neighborhood Civic Associations are destroying PROPERTY RIGHTS.
You do not own your property. Some self-appointed Neighborhood Association owns it.
Posted by mini_me on September 6, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hedgehog: you seem to not see the future! I feel that a nice architually designed parking garage overlooking the capital park and the aforementioned condos; would be quite attractive to the SP area. Think of the forward looking people that some nice parking and condos with granite and stainlesss steel appliances would bring to the area. Also if "they" would clean up the parade themes "they" could attract some much needed proper people to the parade....
Posted by mini_me on September 6, 2009 at 7:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey being stupid.... trying to live up too your name....your doing a damn good job of it.....
Posted by pmccarron on September 6, 2009 at 11:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The days of spectacular building are history.
Historic Societies, Neighborhood Associations, NIMBYs, Zoning Boards, Metro Council Reps = too many people to answer to...
We are becoming a nation of laws, instead of freedom.
Imagine if Leonardo DiVinci wanted to paint the Mona Lisa, but before he could paint it, he would have to get approval from 50 different people before he could paint it.
They would tell, him, well the potrait can only be 5" x 11" (not too big). She needs to have a smile, and the background needs to have a lot more green trees and green landscaping behind Mona. And at least a 2" white border around the entire potrait.
Leonardo would just say forget it. I'll paint my Mona Lisa elsewhere.
(This is what we are doing to architects, developers, & property owners... killing their dreams and vision for a Better Baton Rouge and their property)
Posted by por_deni on September 8, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@Hedgehog--My grandmother is getting along fine at the age of 96, as is the house where she raised my mom. It was built on the TOP of a ridge and never flooded in its 159 years (and counting). While it is stick-built (from lumber, piece-by-piece, on site), it was extremely well crafted, when homebuilders were still craftsman and not commodities-traders, hence its longevity.
Post WWII homes were slapped together and lack the quality and preciseness of structures built just a few years before the war.
Plus, technology has come so far in the last 70 years--Why are we still using wood to frame homes when we could be using anti-microbial steel that is rot-, fire-, pest-, mold- and hurricane-resistant? And why are we relying on old, precious designs (bungalows) instead of letting our current architects build their modern ideas?
History is valuable, but we must also evolve in order for that history to remain relevant.
Posted by mdavis03 on September 10, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Fourx5...I agree with you...I'm surrounded by idiots in this town.
Posted by Hedgehog on October 14, 2009 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This Afternoon's Headlines / Wed, Oct. 14, 2009 Business Report:
Historic preservation group has little clout, city attorney indicates
Just how much clout does the city’s newly created Historic Preservation Commission actually have? It appears not too much, for the moment. That’s according to a city attorney who told the HPC at its meeting today that developer Richard Preis does not have to appear before the agency in order to appeal the demolition-by-neglect citation it issued for three dilapidated houses he owns in Spanish Town.
Preis is appealing the HPC’s finding, which carries a hefty fine, to the Metro Council, but some commission members have questioned whether the appeal process as spelled out in the ordinance lets him bypass the group and go directly to the council. City Attorney Lea Anne Batson says that it clearly does. “The Metro Council wanted to make sure y’all’s decisions are not binding on anybody,” Batson told the commission. “They wanted to make sure if any property owner had a problem, they could go to the Metro Council and get it fixed.”
Batson’s comments underscore the challenges that the HPC faces as it confronts its first test case in Spanish Town, which became a historic district last year. Preis is seeking to tear down the three houses to make way for an apartment complex, which the neighborhood is fighting. But in an ironic effort to save the properties, the commission cited him for demolishing the houses by neglect; if enforced, the finding requires that Preis pay a fine and fix them up. The Metro Council is scheduled to take up the matter next Wednesday but could defer it if the neighborhood’s civic association files a legal challenge to the city attorney’s interpretation of the ordinance.—Stephanie Riegel
THE FIX IS IN.
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